Monday, May 6, 2013
Facts Are Facts: Whoever the Perpetrator The Birth Certificate On The White House Website Is A Fogery and Obama's Selective Service Registration Is Also A Forgery
SEE HERE The issue is out there. The evidence of forgery and fraud is compelling. When will these crimes be investigated and the culprits brought to justice?
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Obama's selective service registration is certainly a forgery, as you have said. But that does not affect Obama because, duh, it was forged by the guy who posted it. And that fellow was, wait for it, NOT Obama. The guy who posted it did not even claim to have gotten it from Obama. (And yet birthers have made much about the selective service registration being forged).
ReplyDeleteObama’s birth certificate is not forged. Only birther “experts” have called it forged, and they have not shown that they are even experts, much less fair and impartial. Those are two reasons why they are not believed by Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck or the National Review (or by Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan or Gingrich or Santorum or Huckabee).
One proof that Obama’s birth certificate is not forged is Obama’s short-form birth certificate.
Short-form birth certificates are created by a clerk reading the information from the document in the file, and filling out the computer form that generates the printed short-form birth certificate. The officials in Hawaii have confirmed that they sent a short-form to Obama. So, unless they are lying—and they were Republican officials–the only way that Obama’s birth certificate could have been forged was that it was forged in 2007 and slipped into the file just before the clerk looked at the file. That is not very likely, is it? And it is especially unlikely since at the time Obama was not even the candidate of the Democrats. He was still in the primaries at the time, and he was only a junior senator from Illinois.
And birther sites have not shown you these real experts.
Dr. Neil Krawetz, an imaging software analysis author and experienced examiner of questioned images, said:“The PDF released by the White House shows no sign of digital manipulation or alterations. I see nothing that appears to be suspicious.”
Nathan Goulding with The National Review: “We have received several e-mails today calling into question the validity of the PDF that the White House released, namely that there are embedded layers in the document. There are now several other people on the case. We looked into it and dismissed it.… I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home.”
John Woodman, independent computer professional, who is a member of the Tea Party (who says that he hates Obama’s policies but found no evidence of forgery) said repeatedly in his book and in various articles on his Web site that the claims that Obama’s birth certificate was forged were unfounded.
Ivan Zatkovich, who has testified in court as a technology expert, and consultant to WorldNetDaily:“All of the modifications to the PDF document that can be identified are consistent with someone enhancing the legibility of the document.” And, by the way, when WND received Zatkovich’s article that said that he found nothing wrong with Obama’s birth certificate, WordNDaily simply did not publish it.
Jean-Claude Tremblay, a leading software trainer and Adobe-certified expert, who has years of experience working with and teaching Adobe Illustrator, said the layers cited by doubters are evidence of the use of common, off-the-shelf scanning software — not evidence of a forgery.“I have seen a lot of illustrator documents that come from photos and contain those kind of clippings—and it looks exactly like this,” he said.
Birthers’ claim that Obama’s birth certificate is false is well understood to be caused by their own motives—they hate Obama and would like to harm him.
That's certainly the other side of the story, but the layers in the Adobe Illustrator document are not normal layers, but instead layers that are correlated with document manipulation.
ReplyDeleteSo it all comes down to what experts you believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoxvT50fss is a short video from Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Cold Case Posse.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/sheriff-joe-arpaio-cold-case-posse-conclusion-video-on-obama-birth-certificate/ I think the evidence of forgery is pretty conclusive so the claim that it isn't seems like a serious contradiction to me.
Re: "That's certainly the other side of the story, but the layers in the Adobe Illustrator document are not normal layers, but instead layers that are correlated with document manipulation."
ReplyDeleteThat is what BIRTHER "experts" have claimed, but nobody else has, and when Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck and the National Review do not believe the birther "experts" and DO believe the officials of Hawaii who stated that the facts on the published imaged of the long form are exactly, repeat EXACTLY, the same as on what was sent to Obama, the birther story seems thin indeed.
By the way, among the five or six birther "experts" there is Doug Vogt, who claims to have found the "original Altar of Abraham" (want to see his site) and Paul Irey, who said that Obama did not attend Columbia College, even though Columbia University said repeatedly that Obama did attend, and even that he graduated. Wonder what his motives were?
Re Sheriff Joe:
http://www.nationalreview.com/content/conspiracy-again
And now, a question for you:
For Obama to have been born in a foreign country:
(1) Obama’s relatives would have had to have been rich enough (and they weren’t. In 1961 Obama’s grandfather was a furniture salesman, and his grandmother was a low-level employee in a bank, and his father went from Kenya to Hawaii on a free flight) and dumb enough to send their daughter at high risk of stillbirth to a foreign country to give birth—-—despite there being fine hospitals in Hawaii;
(2) Obama’s mother would have had to have traveled overseas ALONE (since WND has proven with a FOI Act request that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii throughout 1961) and somehow got Obama back to the USA without getting him entered on her US passport or getting a visa for him (which would have had to have been applied for in a US consulate in that country and the records would still exist);
(3) got the officials in Hawaii to record his birth in Hawaii despite (as birthers claim) his being born in another country and somehow got the teacher who wrote home to her father, named Stanley, about the birth in Hawaii of a child to a woman named Stanley to lie (and since the woman’s father’s name really was Stanley, she would have had to have found one of the very few women with fathers of that name to do it).
If you sincerely believe that Obama could have been born in a foreign country, then you could answer all three points. For Obama to have been born in a foreign country, all three would have had to have happened.
So, the question is, what are the chances, what is the probability, that all three happened? ALL three must have happened, and yet the odds against all three happening are ENORMOUS—the trip during late pregnancy, getting home without a travel document---getting officials to either lie in 1961 or lie now. What are the chances of that?
Actually the procedure used to demonstrate that the long from birth certificate was a forgery is quite sound so I have no doubt that it is. The investigation was quite thorough.
ReplyDeleteAs to whether he was born in Kenya or somewhere I think that's quite possible, certainly there are lots of Kenyans that believe it. But the issue is whether the birth certificate is forged and it appears to be.
Hawaii has very lax registration conditions so item 3 is covered. Whether or not she would have traveled to Kenya is a question you're suggesting is entirely economic etc. I think perhaps he was born in Hawaii but then there is the question why he's covering up all his school records and other issues. Your arguments are reasonable but not conclusive.
Re: " But the issue is whether the birth certificate is forged and it appears to be."
ReplyDeleteSure, he would have his birth certificate forged with EVERY single fact on it being exactly the same as on the one that Hawaii sent to him. We know that because the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii have stated in writing in court cases that the facts on the image that the White House has posted are EXACTLY THE SAME, that the "match" the facts on the one that they sent to Obama.
AND he would forge his BC despite the fact that he was born in Hawaiim and remember the possibility that he was born anywhere else than Hawaii is like about a trillion to one----and birthers claim that there is a realistic chance that he was born in a foreign country despite the simple fact that one in a million American women traveled abroad during pregnancy in those days and Obama's mother would have had to have traveled alone, and, duh, we do not even know that she had a passport in 1961.
Getting back to the "forged" claim. The Web image of the BC may be enhanced, in the process of putting it on the Web, but since the facts are EXACTLY the same as what was sent, it is not forged.
BTW, I like "Victory at Sea" too. Did you know that Richard Rodgers used some of the melodies from it in a Broadway show called "Me and Juliet"?
Apparently you don't understand "forged" -- there is no record of a real birth certificate. There is no hardcopy of a real birth certificate. The document we have is a layered document where the specific layers include the validation signatures and seals which is itself a pretty clear sign of forgery and the penciled annotations in a code that the forgery didn't understand from the document he or she used as a model were then invalidated by inserting data in space that were coded as blank. I'd like to see microfilm of the original or the original. Seems like a simple enough requirement.
ReplyDeleteIf you follow the investigation it appears that Hawaii has a reputation for being easy to establish Hawaiian birth even for people who were actually born elsewhere. I just report what the investigators say. The issue is mostly clouded by the failure of any original documents to surface in a convincing way. If you follow the other dimensions of the story of Obama's many deceits it appears that he may have received support as a foreign student and that he received large amounts of support from Saudi Arabian sources. I'd just like to see some candor and transparency from the president who promised a transparent administration.
There is no "enhanced" it is faked, i.e. forged. There is no real birth certificate. Nor are there hospital records indicating he was born in either of the two facilities in Hawaii. It doesn't mean he wasn't born there. It means we don't know where he was born.
I'm not sure why you should default to believing him when he has made such a production of hiding his records.
I like Richard Rogers' music in general, but Victory at Sea in particular. I didn't know he used some of the same melodies in "Me and Juliet" but then I'm not familiar with many of his musicals.
Re: "Apparently you don't understand "forged" -- there is no record of a real birth certificate."
ReplyDeleteThree officials in Hawaii have stated that they saw Obama's real birth certificate in the files, where it is supposed to be. Two of those were Republican, one Democrat. The latter, the current director of health, stated that she had seen the official long form BC being made by photocopying the document in the files onto the security paper and attaching the current seal. Are all three LYING?
In addition, in 2007---long before Obama became a presidential candidate and was only a junior senator---Hawaii sent Obama its official short form BC. The procedure for creating a short form BC is that a clerk must look into the file and fill in the computer form that generates the BC. So a clerk in 2007 had to have looked into the file and SEEN the original BC in the file, and since the short-form BC says that Obama was born in Honolulu, the BC in the file must also say on it that he was born in Honolulu. And of course, since it was the one that the Director of Health of Hawaii watched being photocopied with the hospital name Kapiolani on it, it was.
So, for you to believe that a birth certificate does not exist, you have to believe that the three named officials--Onaka, Fukino and Fuddy---and the clerk were all lying.
And the Index Data file, a public file that lists the BCs that were issued by year and has been available for years if not decades, which lists Obama getting a BC in 1961, would have to be lying too. And the microfilm copies of birth notices sent to the "Health Bureau Statistics" section of the Hawaii papers by the DOH of Hawaii in 1961 and stored in different files would have to have been forged. (As the name indicates and as BOTH the papers and the DOH say, only the Health Bureau, as the DOH was then know, could send those notices to the Hawaii papers.
So, all of those would have to be lying. And if Obama were born anywhere else than Hawaii so would the Hawaii teacher who has said that she wrote home to her father, named Stanley, after being told by a doctor at Kapiolani Hospital that a child had been born there to a woman named Stanley. (And research has shown that the teacher's father's name was really Stanley.)
Re: "I'm not sure why you should default to believing him when he has made such a production of hiding his records."
Answer: As discussed above, it is not a question of believing Obama. After all, no one really knows where they are born; we only know where we were told that we were born. BUT it is absurd not to believe that all those officials, and the microfilm birth notices and the Index Data and the teacher who wrote home are all lying.
And, what are the odds that they are lying? We do not even know that Obama's mother had a passport in 1961---and perhaps one in ten people did in those days. And we know that the number of women who traveled long international trips during the last two months of pregnancy was in those days like about one in a million.
There is about one in a ten million chance that Obama's mother traveled alone overseas during pregnancy. And, say, another one in a thousand chance that all those officials would be lying about the records that show that she gave birth in a hospital which is near to her home---Kapiolani.
Yet birther sites have apparently convinced you and some others.
Re Obama not showing other records. Well, guess what, no other president or presidential candidate has shown his school records, college records, draft card, parents' marriage license, etc, etc, etc.---either. McCain and Romney certainly didn't.
So your position is that because three folks claim to have seen the birth certificate it must exist. You might explain why it hasn't simply been produced. Earlier reports were that it was sought everywhere and no one could find it. The hospitals in Hawaii had no record of the birth. Now after much Kabuki theater we're told that people have seen it but only a forged Adobe Illustrator document is produced.
ReplyDeleteThen you and people like you say everything is fine, but nothing has actually been produced. BTW it simply isn't true that other presidents have not shown their records. This president has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal his records. The only people who hide things so diligently are people with something to hide which is something the president himself said. The disinformation and misinformation about this president are overwhelming indications that something isn't on the up and up. The published birth certificate is still forged. No actual birth certificate has been produced. So all this posturing doesn't change anything.
As far as I'm concerned the question is why all the problem with producing a clearly authentic birth certificate? I don't know, but the fact of the matter is that something that ought to be simple and straightforward has not been done and what has been done looks like elaborate obfuscation.
Re: "So your position is that because three folks claim to have seen the birth certificate it must exist. You might explain why it hasn't simply been produced."
ReplyDeleteAnswer: It has been produced. The official copy of the document in the files IS the official birth certificate, and yes, the statements of many reliable witnesses plus the Index Data plus the birth notices are all EVIDENCE.
Re: " No actual birth certificate has been produced. "
Answer: Actually, it has. The official copies ARE the birth certificate, not the document in the files. Obama has shown both the images of those BCs, the short form and the long form, and the actual physical copies of them, on security paper with the seal attached, to the press.
Re: "As far as I'm concerned the question is why all the problem with producing a clearly authentic birth certificate? "
Because people who hate Obama will continue to say that whatever is shown is forged, and to make up things that they claim proves that it is forged.
Re: " BTW it simply isn't true that other presidents have not shown their records. "
Answer: Well, then what were the grades of Bill Clinton? Mitt Romney? Bush41? Ronald Reagan? Carter? Ford? Nixon? LBJ?
(We do not even know the grades of Woodrow Wilson or Teddy Roosevelt, and they were both members of phi beta kappa.)
Re: " Earlier reports were that it was sought everywhere and no one could find it."
Answer. That is a BIRTHER report, and it is a LIE. The current governor of Hawaii, who is alleged to have said it, NEVER said it. And, as I have shown three officials in Hawaii have stated in writing that they saw the BC where it is supposed to be, and the clerk who filled in the form that generated the short form MUST have seen it in the files as well.
Re: " The hospitals in Hawaii had no record of the birth. "
Answer: Birther sites have not shown you the following, have they?
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/kapiolani-confirms/
The images produced have been shown to be manipulated. What part of manipulation to make the document appear authentic is it that you don't understand? My position is that the document produced on the White House web site is forged because I've seen clear evidence that it was forged. If your mileage differs it is because you obviously trust different people. It's all a game of who do you trust? as a friend of mine's father once said. I've made my decision and you've made yours.
ReplyDeleteLooked at your link ... wow! A telephone call to the hospital ... you have exceptionally low standards in evidence if you think the testimony of a hospital voice is evidence. No records have been produced from what I understand. The president himself on several occasions is supposed to have claimed one hospital and then the other. His publisher published a bio for his book that said he was born in Kenya and this was left standing for a couple of years. The publishers don't make these bios up they get them from the author.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea where this guy was born or whether he was shipped here by flying saucer ... I just know 1) the on line LFBC is a forgery, and 2) he's hiding all his records. Other suspicious things are the selective service forgery, the social security card with CT number when he's never lived in CT. Then there's the bio on his book I mentioned. In addition there is the rooming in foreign student dorms and the claim that he was receiving financial aid as a foreign student. Then he was adopted by his mother's second husband which made him a citizen of Indonesia if I recall correctly. It just goes on and on. Any your position is that some folks have said that they've seen the forms. Well how did they know what they saw was legitimate? At least two people with subpenas were turned away without seeing these forms. I'm not impressed.
Re: "The images produced have been shown to be manipulated. What part of manipulation to make the document appear authentic is it that you don't understand? "
ReplyDeleteWhat part of "All the facts are the same" don't you understand? What part of "enhancing is not forging" don't you understand?
Re the call to the hospital not being sufficient. But, duh, that call was in addition to the birth certificate and the confirmation of it by the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii, and the public Index Data file and the birth notices and the teacher who wrote home and the one-in-a-million chance that Obama's mother traveled outside of the USA during the last two months of her pregnancy.
Re CT: Answer: have you heard of data entry errors? Well there are millions of them in the SS files, and entering one digit wrong in the zip code of the person produces a SS number from another state.
Re the "foreign student" myth. Answer: It came from an April Fool's article originally posted on April 1, 2009.
Re the "bio in the book." Yes, the publicist got her facts wrong. Surely you do not believe a publicist (especially one who has admitted her mistake) when only 21 people came to the USA from Kenya in 1961 and when it would have cost the equivalent of $10,000 in 2013 dollars in 1961 to go to Kenya and return, and when Obama's mother would have had to have made the trip late in pregnancy ALONE (since WND has proven with a FOI Act request that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii throughout 1961). And when the KENYAN GOVERNMENT says that Obama was not born in Kenya.
Re: "It just goes on and on."
Answer: Of course. Birther CLAIMS go on and on. Do you think that they like Obama? Do you think that just because they do not have the facts they will stop making claims?
Adoption in Indonesia requires the action of a district court, and no such court papers have ever been shown, and Obama's Indonesian step-father's other blood children after the divorce from Obama's mother have never referred to him as "brother"---only their former step-brother.
Oh, and Obama was never an Indonesian citizen either, as a telephone call to the Indonesian embassy in Washington will confirm.
Well I am convinced that you are a whole lot more gullible than I am. The Kenyan government, as I understand it, said they didn't have evidence that he was born in Kenya but they did say there were irregularities. But you keep punting on the fundamental issue that I've asserted which is that the LFBC posted on the White House web site is a forgery. You're sitting there making thin excuses for accepting what are merely raw assertions.
ReplyDeleteYou might actually look at the comparative analysis on the Adobe Illustrator documents. The whole seal and signature as well as part of the text is movable which doesn't happen ... you say what's wrong with enhancement? Well exactly what needed enhancement and how is that an explanation? I'm sorry you are so agenda driven that you don't address the issues. The issue is not that some people say they've seen a birth certificate. The issue is whether a valid birth certificate exists and that is a forensic question. You've also only dismissed some of the relatively easily dismissed issues like the question of adoption. For all I know there might simply be dual citizenship. But there is the assertion that Obama was adopted.
I've only multiplied issues because you're trying to do that to provide cover. My fundamental issue is that a formal investigative body, the Arizona Cold Case Posse upon exhaustive study have officially found the LFBC on the White House Web Site to have been a forgery. The question is why? Your claim of enhancement is without content. What enhancement? Why was the underlying document coded with empty fields that were subsequently filled in? BTW that's forgery even if the information is valid. I think you're evading the issue and spinning up thin defenses. Hear say evidence from people with an oar in the water are no evidence at all.
Re: Sheriff Joe and the Cold Case Posse:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nationalreview.com/content/conspiracy-again
Re: "The Kenyan government, as I understand it, said they didn't have evidence that he was born in Kenya but they did say there were irregularities. "
Here is what they said:
"
“Jon Chessoni, a first secretary at the Kenyan Embassy in Washington, can’t understand why his office gets so many baseless questions about whether Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
“It’s madness,” said Chessoni on Monday.“His father, in 1961, would not even have been in Kenya. When this matter first came up, the Kenyan government did its research and confirmed that these are all baseless claims.””
http://washingtonindependent.com/53654/forged …
BASELESS CLAIMS, got it?
(And, duh, only 21 people came to the USA from Kenya in 1961, and of them only seven were US citizens, and of the the 21 only one came by air, and that one was NOT a US citizen. And Obama's father did not go to Kenya in 1961; he stayed in Hawaii.)
Re: "Why was the underlying document coded with empty fields that were subsequently filled in? "
What part of "the facts are EXACTLY the same" don't you understand? Enhancement means that when the letters are blurred, the software tries to make them seem more clear---and sometimes it fails. Notice the "TXE" in the long form? Well the original was the simple word THE---the software could not see the blurred H and filled it in as X.
Re: "that's forgery even if the information is valid..."
Answer: No it isn't.
Re: " Hear say evidence...."
The statements by the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii that they sent the short form and long form BCs to Obama and that the facts are exactly the same as what they sent, and the Index Data and the birth notices and the teacher who wrote home are not hearsay.
Re: "he Arizona Cold Case Posse upon exhaustive study have officially found the LFBC on the White House Web Site to have been a forgery. The question is why?"
The answer is that they have "found" the LFBC to have been a forgery because they hate Obama.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/paul_ryan_obama_birthers.php
I'm sure you have evidence that they hate Obama ...that's a pretty extreme assertion especially as they have said that they don't.
ReplyDeleteI think this discussion is pointless. You've not actually addressed my points and I really don't disagree strongly with your points on Kenya or Indonesia or for that matter much of anything else because you're appealing to hear say.
I just want solid evidence. You've not offered any. This discussion is over and we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Nice chatting with you.
BTW you obviously don't understand my comment about the coded fields that were filled in. Maybe you should actually research the findings of the Cold Case Posse before being so cavalier as to dismiss them out of hand. But the discussion is over. I do thank you for generating more comment traffic on this issue than I've ever had before.
ReplyDeleteRe: "BTW you obviously don't understand my comment about the coded fields that were filled in."
ReplyDeleteI understand it. It is another lie by Sheriff Joe:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/07/indicting-the-sheriff-joe-and-the-cold-case-posse/
Interesting link which is the only reason I decided to publish this post. I don't think it establishes lying but it may indicate that the Cold Case Posse was mistaken. You are awfully casual with claiming that a certified investigator who is investigating a possible crime is lying when he put up public videos of everything he did including his efforts to decode the coding. The question of course is which coding was really used and who coded it. The fact remains that it appears that the documents were manipulated and that's all that I personally ever asserted.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to think that they were not but then where's the physical document? This whole thing would be put to bed with a real document and it's amazing how few real documents seem ever to be produced with Barack Obama is involved. Just not convinced.
Re: "You seem to think that they were not but then where's the physical document? "
ReplyDeleteObama has shown the physical document, the official physical document on security paper, to the press. Here is the short form (which is the official BC of Hawaii, used by thousands of people in Hawaii every year to get their US passports):
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
THAT is the official hard copy---not the document in the files which is not on security paper and does not have the official seal attached.
And Obama also showed the hard copy of the official long-form BC. And here is a photographic image of it, and the journalist who took the photo stated that she had felt the seal:
http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=607&tbm=isch&tbnid=foQm3EVc9VfpUM:&imgrefurl=http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/06/savannah-guthrie-busted-again-hawaii.html&docid=iT_K26HN6hkJMM&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dBWb0nPzjwY/T-0OEMY0QqI/AAAAAAAAFI4/xWAkN5UIo98/s640/SavannahGuthrieObamaLongFormHUWAII.jpg&w=600&h=450&ei=0PHlULPXBcrN0AH414HoAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=4&vpy=184&dur=1419&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=126&ty=85&sig=104976085004652425434&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=182&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:93
Both of those are REAL documents, and, you should know, that no birther site ever asked the White House to see the hard copies of either the short form or the long form. They have no right to see them, so their lawsuits to get them would fail---but they did not even ASK. I wonder why not? One obvious reason is that they can speculate about the enhancement of the image of the BC all that they want to, but a real document examiner would know in a second that neither the short form nor the long form is forged.
No document expert from such organizations as the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners or the American Society of Questioned Document Experts or the Association of Forensic Document Examiners has ever said that Obama's BC is forged, and no birther site ever asked to see physical copies and said that they would take them to such organizations to be examined. Wonder why not?
And the officials of BOTH parties in Hawaii have repeatedly stated that they sent the short form and the long form to Obama and that the FACTS on the image of the long form that the White House has shown are EXACTLY the same as on what they sent to him.
Re: "a certified investigator who is investigating a possible crime is lying..."
That is what the National Review said:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/292780/conspiracy-again-editors
Re "mistaken." Well, their mistakes are not good indications that they are reliable on other matters, such as whether the BC was "forged." And the posse ALSO did not ask the White House to see a physical copy of the long form with a promise to take it to such organizations as the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners or the American Society of Questioned Document Experts or the Association of Forensic Document Examiners.
Are we having fun yet? Of course a document was shown and it had seals and things on it ... it has also been established that getting registered in Hawaii is pretty easy even for people who were not born in Hawaii in the timeframe of Obama's birth and there are lots of reasons to do that since U.S. citizenship is a valuable thing.
ReplyDeleteThere are claims out there that this too is a forgery, however that is a claim that I have not looked at as much. There were several short form birth certificates that were floating around and at least one of them had to be a forgery which is what got the long form birth certificate squabble started from what I can gather.
I probably should say that there are so many irregularities about the Obama candidacy, election, and White House reign that sorting out the truth from the fiction is difficult. I want to say again that I found the LFBC evidence of forgery convincing. I'm a scientist, I'm a computer person, but I'm not an Adobe Illustrator expert. I've never so much as run the program. However I'm enough of an expert to understand the significance of the observations that were made and they totally convinced me that the scan the White House put up was a fraud. That is the finding of the Cold Case Posse and that is a finding that I find convincing. All the rest of this brouhaha is stuff I've not particularly researched and don't really have much of a position concerning.
At this point I gather you've accomplished enough indirection to make the Cold Case Posse finding look doubtful to the casual observer and that's probably your goal anyway.
Re: "it has also been established that getting registered in Hawaii is pretty easy even for people who were not born in Hawaii in the timeframe of Obama's birth and there are lots of reasons to do that since U.S. citizenship is a valuable thing."
ReplyDeleteAnswer: That is a birther claim, but they have not proven it. They have NEVER shown a Hawaii birth certificate issued since the time that Hawaii became a state in which it EVER stated a Hawaii place of birth on it, such as "Honolulu" on Obama's short form or "Kapiolani Hospital" on his long form, to a child who was born in another country.
Re: "There are claims out there that this too is a forgery...
Answer, for the short-form to be a forgery, Obama would have had to have slipped a document into the files that said that he was born in Honolulu because the clerk who generated the short-form BC by filling in the computer form got that fact from the document in the files. That is how short-form BCs are created, and remember the officials of the Republican party then stated that the DOH of Hawaii had sent the short-form BC to Obama and the facts on it were accurate.
Re: "There were several short form birth certificates that were floating around and at least one of them had to be a forgery ..."
Yes, at least one was a forgery. It worked like this. One or more of the birthers took the image of the short form that was posted, fooled around with it a little, then posted it again, and said: "Look, see, it is forged." Well it was forged, and the birther did it.
But for the short form really to have been forged, the officials of the Republican party would have to be lying when they said that they sent it to him and that all the facts on it were accurate. And, so would the public Index Data file.
http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2011/04/in_hawaii_its_easy_to_get_birt.html
And so would the teacher who stated that she had written home to her father, named Stanley, after being told by a doctor at Kapiolani Hospital that a child had been born there to a woman named Stanley.
http://web.archive.org/web/20110722055908/http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/res10o2yg/obama/Teacher%20from%20Kenmore%20recalls%20Obama%20was%20a%20focused%20student%20%20Don%27t%20Miss%20%20The%20Buffalo%20News.htm
Re: "At this point I gather you've accomplished enough indirection to make the Cold Case Posse finding look doubtful to the casual observer and that's probably your goal anyway."
NO that is not my goal at all. It is to make you realize that the chance of Obama being born anywhere else than in Hawaii is about a ZILLION to one. Remember that perhaps one in a million American women traveled late in pregnancy in 1961, and there isn't even evidence that Obama's mother had a passport, and such a trip would have been risky and highly expensive, and she would have had to have made the trip alone (since it has been proven that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii by WND)--------and there were perfectly good hospitals in Hawaii.
Actually I don't disagree with you. This was a very nice post and I agree with it almost entirely. You're still not dealing with my issue which is not that President Obama was not born in Hawaii. Frankly I don't much care. I think he's ineligible if he was born in Hawaii because of the Natural Born Citizen condition. That is controversial as well. The whole thing is rapidly becoming moot since he's served four years and now has been reelected (assuming the carefully staged fraud wasn't enough to actually sway the election), so in a few more years it won't likely matter.
ReplyDeleteBut the LFBC is still forged. I don't grant that the sheriff and his Cold Case Posse are a bunch of liars. You've only presented the case that Obama probably was born in Hawaii ... so then why does the birth certificate posted on the White House web site have all these anomalies? I think it was convincingly shown to be a forgery.
I have no idea why. I especially have no idea why if he actually was born in Hawaii. I don't think that the production of a short form birth certificate proves there is a valid long form birth certificate in the Hawaiian system. The many strange things about Obama just add up to a very large mystery. If you're interested here's another strange story that was posted somewhere and I bookmarked it as interesting: http://redflagnews.com/headlines/obama-vetting-1979